Interview with Dan Johnson about the upcoming series, My Father’s Father
After catching up with Father Dave about the upcoming series My Father’s Father, Mary Patterson (writer, photographer, and designer on the WG team) sat down with Creative Director Dan Johnson to hear what he has to say about this next series from 10th Hour Productions and the ongoing collaboration between 4PM Media and Wild Goose TV.
MARY PATTERSON: “Okay, so first question, what's your favorite thing about your employee, Mary Patterson? Just kidding. What was the reason for the topic or the title of this series?”
DAN: “Great question. You know, it's funny, we didn't really set out to do three series and have it cover each of the persons of the Trinity, but we started with the Wild Goose. We knew that we wanted to do something on the Holy Spirit as our first project with Father Dave and The Ministry. Then, once we finished that, we moved on and wanted to do something about an encounter with Jesus—so we filmed the Metanoia series. When we decided to film those, Father Dave had written books on these topics right around the same time, so a lot of the information was already there and it just made sense to be able to do those series.
After we finished Metanoia, I think we all kind of knew that our third series was gonna be on the Father.
After that, Father Dave became president of Franciscan and then Covid hit, so there was this long pause in our ability to do any productions at that point. And so we started to work on ideas for this new series.
We knew that it needed to be relational because our image of God the Father is shaped by our own relationships with our earthly fathers. So there's a lot about this series that can be really good, but also really tough. Then, as we were about to begin production, Father Dave's own dad passed away. And as difficult as it was, several months after his dad had passed we kind of felt like diving into that story of Father Dave and his relationship with his dad. We thought it would be something really beautiful to walk through with him as he was walking through it.
And so it's him telling the story of his father ultimately relating that to his dad's own relationship with God the father which opened up doors and opened up Father Dave's eyes to that relationship as well, which was seen so beautifully particularly in the last few days of his father's life. That’s where the title really comes from.”
MP: “Great. I love it. You kind of just touched on this a little bit, but there's a lot in this topic, you know, that can be really good for some people, and can be really hard for some people. So while you guys were getting ready for this series, preparing for the series, filming this series, did you think quite a bit about your own father?”
DAN: “Yeah. I mean, going through the interviews, listening to Father Dave talk about his own dad and hearing those stories, and the interviews with other people and their experiences with their father, you can't help but sit there and honestly pray and reflect on your own relationship with your dad. And really reflecting on the highs and the lows of that relationship. The challenges that we experienced, but then the really beautiful parts and moments of healing.
And one of the things that Father Dave brought up is that very often he hears people talk about the difficulties they had with their own dads, but very rarely does he actually hear someone talk about their failings as a son or a daughter, and how they could have done more to be a better son. And that was one of the things that I think really impacted me, really thinking about “how can I be a better son?” And then even seeking reparation for the ways in which I wasn't a good son. So I think that was actually a really beautiful reflection.
You know, part of the healing of any relationship is taking ownership of your own shortcomings. I think that was one of the ways, one of the reflections, that was really important to me as we were going through the filming process and I think one that will stick out to viewers as well.”
MP: “Yeah. And this is kind of staying along the same thought process, but did filming this series cause any realizations or changes in the way that you love and parent as a father?”
DAN: “I think there are some great affirmations in some of the things that Lauren and I do to raise our kids. It was reinvigorating. I think you get caught when you have seven kids, right. And life is busy and things are crazy and you've got school and extracurricular activities and all these things. And it's easy to become a little complacent while trying to keep up. So I think there was a sense of reasserting our intentionality as parents and me reasserting my intentionality as a father.
There are so many things that you don't realize stick with your kids. So really looking for those opportunities to be able to build up, encourage, and express my love. In a particular moment to be able to say, “Hey, this is all good. I love you. Nothing's gonna change that.” Just reasserting things like that was . definitely something that came up for me personally through the filmmaking process.”
MP: “That’s great. My kids aren’t old enough to fully understand me yet, so I'll watch this series and get all my tips from Father Dave, haha. So Father Dave said something in my interview with him, and it's rumored that you might actually make an appearance in this series. Is that true?”
DAN: “Yeah. One of the things that's really different about this series is that in all the other things that we've done with Father Dave, he prepares a talk more or less, and presents. He looks directly into the camera and is presenting a message directly to the viewer. And he tells stories and those things are very engaging. But for this series we did something a little different. He and I sat and I interviewed him. He prepared a lot of the thoughts that he wanted to get out, but then there were additional things about his own dad, his relationship with his dad, or these particular topics that we were discussing where I actually interviewed him in front of the camera. And so it's very different. So there may be pieces of me in there asking specific questions and digging deeper into some of the things that he says. So in a lot of ways Father Dave couldn't completely prepare. And so it is, again, a much more raw and reflective series.”
MP: “Right.”
DAN: “It was actually really cool to be able to sit with Father Dave and have some of these conversations with him on a personal level. You know, we've worked together for so long now that we have a comfortability with one another so it was really neat on a personal level to be able to sit and have these conversations for both of us. It was also difficult. There were a number of things that were just difficult for him to talk about and reflect on, so that'll come out in the series for sure.”
MP: “Awesome. So the man behind the camera makes an appearance. So you kind of just talked about how this series is done a little bit differently from the others. What do you hope to accomplish by changing it up specifically?”
DAN: “The idea of relationships. You know, we want these relationships to be seen somewhat on camera or heard at least somewhat on camera.
There are other scenes when Father Dave is sitting down with people that he knows, that he has a relationship with or is developing a relationship with as a priest, or people that he's done ministry with or people who've meant something to him, or people he's married or mentored as a father figure. And seeing that relationship on camera, being in the room with Father Dave and the other interviewees is different than before. So usually you just see the interviewee and they're just telling the story. You never really hear from Father Dave or even realize he is or isn't in the room. In this series you see him in the room sitting down and having these personal conversations.
So the idea, as much as it can be relayed through film, is that these are real relationships and this is a relational series. And you can also see that visibly. In the past we filmed in Israel in the Holy Land, and in the desert, or Niagara Falls, and had these sort of massive backdrops. But this time we are in homes—in his home—with people that he knows. So it's less epic and more intimate. I think that’s how we would describe it.”
MP: “That was good. That'll be one of your saint quotes when you're dead. So mentally or emotionally or physically, what was one of the hardest moments for you while filming?”
DAN: “There was a time, just from a content standpoint, when we were sitting at the Grand Canyon and we had a segment there and it wasn't planned. Again, I'm just sitting down having this conversation with Father Dave and you know, something will come up in our conversation and I’ll chase that with questions and, you know, we got to this point and he started to recount the story of his dad's passing. It was really beautiful and really tough at the same time to walk through that with him. I don't even think it had been a year since his dad had passed.
And so I don't know, with his schedule as the president of Franciscan, if he really had the time to sit and really reflect and to be in these places after his father’s passing. And we had just been in his hometown, so you can only imagine all of the things that might’ve welled up inside of someone experiencing that. So to sit there and have this really intimate and unplanned conversation with him was tough, but also beautiful. So that was incredibly moving and it felt like I was led into a moment with Father Dave, and I think that's how the viewer will feel. Like they are experiencing a moment that was unplanned and not prepared for and can't be held back. And that's the journey with the Father—that we're moved in so many incredible ways.
So I would say that was definitely one of those moments.”
MP: “Yeah. It sounds like a beautiful moment. What was one of your favorite moments from filming? Are there any other ones that maybe weren't as challenging, maybe fun or funny?”
DAN: “Father Dave took us to this restaurant that they used to go to and said, order this burrito. It's this taco restaurant, and this massive burrito comes out and everybody kind of looks at it like, how am I gonna eat this whole thing.
There are all of these great memories, like going to his hometown parish. It’s sort of like this famous figure in some ways comes home. His dad was a doctor in this small town and everybody knew him. And he delivered so many of these people, so there's this really intimate connection to this place in Colorado which was just fun to experience with Father. Mm-hmm.
Another, I would say, was when we went fly fishing. I've never been fly fishing and I can still say that I haven't been fly fishing because I didn't get to hold the rod. But filming fly fishing on this river in this beautiful night while the sun set was definitely a highlight. Gratuitous in terms of the film, like this was not necessary to do. It was something that he did with his dad and loved doing, but just watching him be able to do that was such a fun moment for sure.”
MP: “My next question is, were there any interviews that were specifically more emotional for the crew?”
DAN: “Yeah, there were a couple. Dr. Bob Schutts just has such a unique sort of delivery and personality and stories, and he's so experienced in healing and healing relationships. So that was really cool and I think moving for the crew. The other was John Edwards. And he's not as well known. He's a speaker who really more recently has gone through his own healing and conversion experiences. He has a ministry, and he's kind of like your blue collar man's man guy. His story was—I think I turned around at one point and everybody on the crew was crying. Just his story about his own experience with his dad and this image in his mind when he was praying of this moment that he had experienced with his own dad. It was a rough one, but he saw Jesus in that moment. And it caused this massive conversion in his own heart. It’s a story that can resonate with everyone.”
MP: “For sure. Great. So Father Dave—you've also mentioned this—talked a lot about how vulnerable and raw filming some of this series was. So did that generate a different feeling on set than the one that’s usually felt?”
DAN: “Yes. There was a different feeling on set. All of the other projects that we've done with Father Dave didn’t really demand as much from the crew in terms of filming. You know, there's this beautiful message that’s prepped and delivered. And they’re all very moving. I mean, we've seen that with all the stories from all those who've seen them, and the conversions and things that have happened in people’s lives. Including myself. But this series was different. There was just a responsibility really that I felt I needed to handle this with extreme care. To decide to end moments and interviews and say it's not worth the film to keep digging into this or to go to that place. Because this is an intimate experience that Fr. Dave and his family had, and we don't want to exploit any of those moments for the sake of the film, you know? So I distinctly remember a moment, without getting into the context of it, just going like, yeah, that's it, we're done for today, we're not gonna film anymore. And that had never happened in any other series. So there, there was a responsibility to stay true to what was being asked of us, and not to exploit or do more than what was comfortable for Father Dave and his family.”
MP: “OK. My final question is what do you hope people will get out of this series or learn from this series?”
DAN: “It almost sounds cliche, but I think it has to be said to each and every one of us, time and time and time and time again, that God is a Father who loves us. We are his beloved sons and daughters, and there's nothing that we can do to earn that love. It is freely given. And there's also nothing we can do to lose that love. We can turn away from it, you know? We can refuse it, but there's nothing that we can do to lose it. God's always loving us and Father Dave's own experience and journey through his relationship with his dad, who was a good dad, is such a beautiful example of that.
Fr. Dave’s dad was a good father. And of course they had their spats and things and Father Dave even said at different points, ‘I almost feel guilty because I had a good dad.’ And I think that helps to show us the love of the Father. And in those moments and in those relationships with people who haven't had that experience, or who've had difficult relationships with their fathers, I hope this series will show people the healing that comes and also reveal a Father in heaven who's a different image of their earthly ones.
We hope this series will bring about healing in that. That's the message: God the Father loves us and we are His beloved sons and daughters. I don't think we can hear that enough because I think we always sort of doubt that to some degree or another, myself included.”